Zendaya to star as Cleopatra with Timothe Chalamet directed by Denis Villeneuve

Villeneuve‘a next film will be “Cleopatra” for Sony Pictures. The screenplay is said to be written by David Scarpa (“Napoleon”) and based on the best-selling book by Stacey Schiff. Production is supposed to begin sometime in 2024.

Zendaya has already accepted the offer to take on the role of the young queen of Egypt. Timothée Chalamet has been offered the role of Octavius and Daniel Craig is being sought for Caesar.

Is there a role for Brenton Thwaites in this?

Schiff’s biography is terrific. This could be a really good movie. I know DL is not a haven for Zendaya and Timothee Chalamet fans but I think they’re both very talented and charismatic.

Would have picked Timothee for Octavia he has a Jean Marsh je ne sais quoi yet less masculine than Rose.

They messed up casting. Tiny Tim would be a more plausible Cleopatra with his delicate frame... built like a porcelain bird skeleton.

Hold my hair because I am about to PUKE!!!

I love Denis Villeneuve, but why does this motherfucker keep forcing me to watch Timothee Chalamet if I want to see his movies? Dear God. He’s like Scorsese forcing Leo down our throats.

Is there something for Colton?

I thought Gaga was going to win her 2nd Oscar for Cleo?

This will be a real stretch for delicate Timmy to play a heterosexual man.

Everyone knows Cleopatra was a white woman!

He makes a bit of sense as Octavian though based on statues they don’t look alike. However if they’re casting Zendaya S Cleopatra, they’re not going for verisimilitude in appearance. Tim-o-tay would not make sense as Marc Antony.

Is Timothee playing a eunuch?

Does this kill the Gal Gadot Cleo movie?

Did you get a chance to watch Dune? Awful. A complete letdown

Is Zendaya the new Julia Roberts? Has she ever carried a film?

[quote] Everyone knows Cleopatra was a white woman!

She was, hon. Unless you think Greeks aren’t white.

This casting sounds like a joke Detective Kinderman would've made in the Exorcist

No Billy Porter as Octavia-us? I recall an Angelina Jolie version that never came to pass...

How weird that the press release makes no mention of who would play Marc Antony, clearly the lead in any film about Cleopatra.

UPDATED: Denis Villeneuve’s reps have contacted me and are denying Richtman’s story.

That bitch. I’ll never forgive her. Can’t take a joke. That’s woke.

That’s what I was thinking, r19.

Seriously? Another Cleopatra movie? Why? But OMG, the star will be mildly ethnic so it's IMPORTANT!

And still nothing for poor, neglected Theodora. Sadness. Staleness. Hollywood.

Timothee probably planted this fake story.

[quote]She was, hon. Unless you think Greeks aren’t white.

Nia Vardalos IS Cleopatra.

With all the movies that Zendaya and Jacob Elordi are making, it seems Euphoria is over. Oh yeah and add the dead guy Angus Cloud.

R27. Then I guess John Corbett will Marc Antony.

You know, I don't want to see Zendaya and Daniel Craig making out of have a sex scene together.

There's something unpleasant about that.

Timmy will be taken by the Gauls and used in their barbaric pleasure rituals.

Ah, those were the days r31

Timothée Chalamet as Cleopatra

I'll take care of Timmy, make sure he's prepared for his role each day.

R15, she’s never carried a movie yet she’s arguably the most popular actress in the USA based on her social following. They cancelled her tennis movie this year because she wasn’t available to promote it due to the strike. I don’t think she’s a great actress. She’s pretty, but she’s cold and has flat facial expressions.

It really amazes me that you can reach a certain age, I'm 74, and have no idea who certain pop celebrities are, even though I'm being told here that this Zendaya person is the most popular actress in the USA. I watch a lot of films and TV, though most of it streaming, even more daily news, and yet, I've totally missed this creature. And I couldn't care less. I couldn't pick her out in a lineup if you held a gun to my head.

Now, Timothee, I know.

[quote] She’s pretty, but she’s cold

I love, love LOVE, and eagerly await Zendaya in one distinct way - on the Red Carpet.

From pure force of being in her prime, and her smarts of turning herself over to the best stylists, Zendaya now occupies that place once held by Jolie, Halle Berry and Theron.

Zendaya sits upon the Throne of the Red Carpet; pretenders, to the back.

BUT, she has yet to compel me on the screen, which is why I quoted r35 above.

To state the obvious, a first impression is important, and when I first saw her in acting mode was Marvel's Spider-Man.

And, man, was I ever underwhelmed. Zendaya, to me, is just not an exciting presence on the screen.

I don't care whether or not she has acting talent. Demi Moore made herself a career and millions, all without a lick of acting talent.

But Moore had that undefinable, you're either born with it or you're not, compelling, you don't look away from them presence when captured by a cinematographer's camera.

So far, I haven't seen that presence from Zendaya, and, if there is one sure thing a portrayal of Cleopatra requires, it's charismatic presence.

I PRODUCED THE DEFINITIVE VERSION OF CLEOPATRA, MOTHERFUCKERS!! Why try to fuck with historical accuracy?

Yeah I think this is probably fake. Mouseboy wants an Oscar and so the Bob Dylan film is his number one priority. James Magnold, the director, said it would start filming next year but back in April he said it would start filming in the summer. Despite what Mouseboy’s PR wants you to believe, his name alone can’t automatically greenlit a movie. That’s why I’m sure he’s anxious as to how Wonka does.

Octavius is a nothing role in the tale of Cleopatra.

I think we'd all rather see Mo'Nique and Johnny Knoxville in the titular roles.

Is Villeneuve fucking Prince Cigarette? What's his fascination with this boring twink

I hope this movie never happens.

[quote] This could be a really good movie. I know DL is not a haven for Zendaya and Timothee Chalamet fans but I think they’re both very talented and charismatic.

Generally, we like her and dislike him.

Cleopatra was Greek and Egyptian. And by then, the Egyptians had a very slight dusting of Nubian blood as well. So mostly a Greek/ Middle Eastern vibe. Zendaya will be fine for it. Timothee is completely wrong for any role in this movie. And honestly so is Daniel Craig. If they're looking for a Julius Caesar they need to keep searching. I am sure we, here at DL can offer some very workable suggestions for casting him and Octavius.

I thought James Purefoy and Ciaran Hines were perfect for their roles in the HBO series Rome. So was the nerdy kid who played young Octavian.

[quote] However if they’re casting Zendaya S Cleopatra, they’re not going for verisimilitude in appearance.

I know. If you look at all those pics from the modeling shoots Herb Ritts did with Cleopatra at the Pyramids you can easily see there is little resemblance to Zendaya.

I don’t understand why they think Zendaya is a good idea after the Netflix documentary backlash?

Cleopatra was not black or mixed race. She was Greek.

This will just be another Netflix / Snow White disaster.

I’m so confused why they would get Zendaya.

[quote] thought Gaga was going to win her 2nd Oscar for Cleo?

GaGa could never. It’s known that Cleo was no beauty, but she was supposed to be charismatic and seductive. Gaga is neither.

R46 No.

Cleopatra’s nationality was Egyptian.

Her ethnicity was Greek.

The Ptolemies did not mix. Even her Syrian and Persian ancestry is STILL Greek, as the Greeks conquered those territories through Alexander the Great.

Her mother was Cleopatra V, it’s only questioned because there’s no written record of it, but that’s her mother. And she clearly died giving birth to Cleopatra because she disappeared from records the year Cleopatra was born.

And she was her father’s half-sister.

So no, she was not Egyptian.

Timothee looks more like Cleopatra than Zendaya.

Why are these two being shoved into EVERY movie?

Timothée Clementine IS Cleopatra!

Cleopatra was supposed to be intensely charismatic and charming, so this casting is a major fail.

She was brilliant and spoke several languages. Caesar was fascinated with her because she was intelligent and charismatic, not incredibly beautiful.

The idea that she was ugly was a myth started on the BBC because of her coin that was discovered.

What historians say is when her father died, she just had them add a hairbun to her fathers coin.

The coins she made after depicts her as normal looking.

You can't necessarily believe the paintings are historically accurate. Maybe they made her look more European because she hooked up with Caesar. I mean look what they did to Jesus. He was not a blue eyed blonde.

They gave her a Roman nose.

She should do Aida. Aida was Nubian.

[quote] She should do Aida.

She doesn’t have the range.

[quote] Daniel Craig is being sought for Caesar

This has to be a mistake for "Mark Antony." There's no storyline in which Caesar and Octavius/Octavian appear with Cleopatra at the same time; Antony is missing from this scenario.

There's no evidence that Cleopatra was either Greek or Egyptian; all her known ancestry was from the Macedonian aristocracy. And we have little evidence for the typical appearance or complexion of ancient Macedonian (before northern invasions of the Balkans).

Zendaya’s been great as Ru, an awkward teenager who is a lesbian drug addict.

Agree I have not seen her be good outside that role or the red carpet.

And it’s sounding like social media dictates stardom rather than box office. Maybe they make up the difference in streaming sales and subscriptions.

[quote]With all the movies that Zendaya and Jacob Elordi are making, it seems Euphoria is over.

Does Villeneuve know that Chalameh is box office poison?

Are they going to be in college for Euphoria 3? Zendaya’s 27.

r36 she's really more media hype than a person who has a big audience following her, like Julia Roberts back in the day.

[quote]Cleopatra was Greek and Egyptian.

Cleopatra was of completely Macedonian Greek ancestry.

Cleopatra was of Greek ethnicity. Talk about misappropriation of another culture.

Cleopatra has been done to death. Yawn.

Zendaya's just so bland. It's too bad Angelina's Cleopatra didn't get made.

Zendaya needs a second name, she's definitely not first name famous!

I think about 200 years passed between the General Ptolemy, allegedly Alexander the Great's half brother (Phillip's son) and Cleopatra. it is a well known fact that first, Macedonians were notoriously insular. They were very tribal and did not welcome outsiders, and secondly, that Alexander, their king, made political marriages, alliances with other nations and tribes through marriages, and encouraged his generals and his soldiers to do likewise.. So while I believe that Cleopatra's Greek (Macedonian) ancestry probably dominated, realities of politics alliances, rulers, etc. and the passage time would dictate that Cleopatra was probably not 100% pure Macedonian/Greek.

Cleopatra gained access to Julius Caesar by having herself rolled up in a rug she gifted to him. When the rug was unfurled at his feet, she was in it. A bit dusty but alluring.

I do hope they include that choice bit in this new film.

Pics of the Before and After Cleo coins or it never happened.

R64 stupid gurlina, the people from southern Balkans are not descendants of some northern invaders. There were some Slavic and Turks that have mixed with Macedonians, but there was no genocide or pogroms.

And the ethnicity of Greek Macedonians is well known, except to ignorant queens like yourself. There are written documents from ancient Greece, statues etc that describe people Alexander the Great was blonde white man for eg.

[quote]“I don't care what they tell you in school, Cleopatra was Black. '”

Haven't we gone through this before with Jada's abortion?

Why not, r78? The rug was good enough for Elizabeth Taylor.

R77, You overlook the incestuous bloodline policies of the royal Ptolemys.

R58 But with Cleopatra, you’d be talking about a 300 year dynasty of inaccuracy.

She wasn’t a one-off like Caesar or Genghis Khan.

Her family ruled Egypt for 300 years and they’ve got statues, paintings, mosaics, sculptured, coins, etc etc.

R77 You’re forgetting one major component and that’s that they were incestuous.

Historians say she was actually in a carpet bag.

Stacy Schiff painted a different picture, which is probably more accurate.

She snuck into the carpet bag because she had to hide from her brother who wanted her dead - so she was most likely very scared and in fear of her life, as she was 19 years old.

And that Caesar most likely seduced Cleopatra. She was a scared 19 year old virgin and he was a famous womanizer who slept with everyone.

[quote] realities of politics alliances, rulers, etc. and the passage time would dictate that Cleopatra was probably not 100% pure Macedonian/Greek

Those political marriages for diplomatic purposes were with other Macedonian dynasties in Syria and the like (there may have been some Iranian mixture among the Seleucids). Cleopatra's ancestry is well documented and there are few unknowns in her family tree. The knowns were Macedonian. And Macedonian does not equal "Greek" as some posters are implying; in fact, ancient Greek ethnicity itself was widespread and diverse (are we talking about the Greeks in the southern Balkan peninsula, the Ionian Greeks, the Sicilian and south Italian Greeks, the Greeks who had already been a presence in Egypt for several hundred years before Alexander arrived, or whom?).

R80 sounds like someone who has studied ancient Mediterranean history deeply at an advanced level. The argument that we "know" the exact look and coloring of people from (non-eyewitness) ancient texts and (Roman copies of) portraits probably earned them a PhD at the very least.

I swear - there are certain historical figures that I think are over celebrated and worn out. Cleopatra is definitely one of them.

There are a LOT of other cool historical figures - why do a fucking ANOTHER film about this woman?

God - Joan of Arc, Marie Curie, Hedy Lamarr, Amelia Earhardt, Mary Wollstonecraft, Ada Lovelace - and I'm sure there are many African, Arab, and Asian women to celebrate.

Get some original material people! There's plenty out there.

Just go here and read all about it. Just don't waste more space arguing about Cleo's origins. It's been done....and probably by the same posters who said the same thing on the other thread.

She was a royal prostitute.

R87, how about Zenobia if people are interested in ancient figures? A queen of Palmyra who took on the Roman and Parthian empires and carved out her own empire for a while. She also has a cool name.

Wait I don’t love this cuz Timothy is box office poison.

[quote] how about Zenobia if people are interested in ancient figures?

Zenobia’s xenophobia would suite these times.

R86 brain-dead queen has never seen a Greek statue and never heard about Greek historians.

I’m thinkin white cunts prolly did Cleopatra like they do the great Queen Bey. Make her look more European in sculpting.

Teacake, you stupid queen, Cleopatra was European, queen Bay is light skinned POC who tries to look European by bleaching and straightening her hair.

R97 you stankin ass bitch. Don’t ever lie on The Queen again.

There are Beyoncé statues?

Someone was asking why he didn’t win sexiest man.

Because he’s a man- child.

r85, did carpet bags really exist way back then? I think they were a Victorian accessory, literally made from the scraps of old carpets, and not, to my knowledge, large enough to accommodate a grown woman.

I do think she was white as we would all define it. However, nobody in that era was nearly as obsessed with white skin and black skin and what it all means as we are. Our absolute, nonstop, crazy ass obsession with skin color as the single most meaningful trait of any human being begins with the Atlantic slave trade of the 1500s, and probably doesn't really kick in until the 1600s. Nobody in the world of the Roman Empire would care nearly as much as we do.

Who is obsessing over skin color? Not me.

Zenyata is fucking Tom with a strap-on, right?

[quote] ...Cleopatra was European, queen Bay is light skinned POC who tries to look European by bleaching and straightening her hair.

LIAR!!! That hair comes right out of the bag already bleached and straightened!

When you look at the bust of Egyptian queen Nefertiti, what do you see? Is that a Black woman?

Who cares what I see r108, or you? Nobody while Cleopatra was alive would look at a bust of Nefertiti and immediately obsess about her skin color, and how exactly she must be classified, and where she fits in the grand scheme of human races, and whether it would be authentic or inauthentic for anybody of the "wrong" race to portray her in any way, and what this all says about us as a society. Nobody. But a whole hell of a lot of people today would do exactly all that and more. If this movie goes forward, the chief topic of conversation will be whether Cleopatra's skin color is being properly represented or not and what it all means and what it says about us all and on and on and fucking on.

Maybe Zendaya is going to play Miss Cleo, with Timmy as her hopelessly gullible customer.

r109 it's just that Cleopatra was Macedonian Greek. Having a mixed race/black actress play her is completely historically inaccurate.

Are people aware that Denis has denied that this movie is happening?

I think it's pretty naive to think there wasn't any discrimination against people of different skin tones, even thousands of years ago. Sadly, it's always been a part of human nature to fear what is different. And often, darker has meant scarier.

r112 Is there a source for that?

R112, so of us did read that at R20.

Will some Director just fuck the hell out of Timmy, cum in his eyes, and tell him he needs to realize how mediocre he is?

I wasn't r112. but I was not sure this movie would actually take place. I'm sure a lot always happens between "hey, we're thinking of doing this movie" and a movie actually happening, and usually the movie doesn't get made.

But that doesn't change the fact that the first thing that happens is an immediate obsession with Cleopatra's skin color and whether it is being properly represented. And that is what is so different about our time and hers. They would be worrying about whether her regal and divine nature were being properly conveyed, and whether the Roman and Egyptian dynamics were being properly portrayed, and whether the sexual dynamics were authentic and probably a thousand other things.

For us, in our time, the absolute primary obsession is skin color, first and foremost. Always. And I think that says more about us than anything else about this maybe, probably not movie.

R87 You say ANOTHER film like there’s been one since 1963.

Her true story has never been depicted on any type of screen.

She’s a very famous figure who’s been misinterpreted.

We have not seen a historically accurate Cleopatra, who’s looks and world would have resembled this …

Other than her "look" what would you like to see r118? What do you think is missing in the whole story of Hollywood Cleopatra? Why do a Cleopatra movie?

Apologies, r112, I didn't see r20, thanks to r115 for bringing it back to attention

I've always loved Cecil B de Mille's CLEOPATRA (1934) starring Claudette Colbert and the hottest Marc Antony you'll ever see Henry Wilcoxon.

R117 Yeah but even with that logic, and you’re right, Cleopatra’s portraits would have been accurate. And she was depicted as white lol.

They weren’t trying to whitewash her back then. And the only portrait of her, she’s white lol.

[quote]I do think she was white as we would all define it. However, nobody in that era was nearly as obsessed with white skin and black skin and what it all means as we are.

You are so wrong. The Egyptians invented face powder. They were made with white lead.

And look at the porcelain white skin in classical painting.

White was the ideal.

That is definitely not about fitting into some "white race" r123. That is a completely modern concept, and a modern obsession (well modern, as in "modern Europe" since around 1500). We have such a completely different mindset about race and skin color, we can't even see it, and assume it just has always been this way. It hasn't. We can hardly imagine that everyone in the history of all humanity hasn't obsessed about white race and black race and "brown people" as much as we do, because we simply can't imagine people being any other way. They were.

[quote]the first thing that happens is an immediate obsession with Cleopatra's skin color

The person most obsessed about it would have been Cleopatra herself.

[quote]While Denis Villeneuve finishes post-production on his Dune sequel, the director looks to his next film. Before the WGA and SAG strikes began this past summer, he was attached to direct an Egyptian epic based on Cleopatra for Sony Pictures. This version is not to be confused with the Gal Gadot and Patty Jenkins version, which is stuck in development hell since 2020. Villeneuve is looking to reteam with Dune star Zendaya in the title role. The director is also courting Timothée Chalamet as Octavius and Daniel Craig as Julius Caesar. However, neither have signed on as the SAG actor’s strike was underway. Amy Pascal (Spider-Man) is set to produce the film. Production is expected to begin sometime in 2024 as both strikes have been resolved.

AAAHHHHHH! How many are we supposed to stomach?

[quote]Recently, Deadline announced that actress Gal Gadot would be re-teaming with her Wonder Woman director Patty Jenkins on a new film. The duo will be starring and directing the historical epic story of Cleopatra. Paramount Pictures won the auction on the film from the other major studios. Charles Roven (Batman v Superman, Wonder Woman) will help produce the project through his Atlas Entertainment. Paramount CEO Jim Gianopulos has requested the film to be put into production as quickly as possible.

[quote]That is definitely not about fitting into some "white race" [R123].

It IS about having pale skin. That was the ideal.

That is now what we are talking about r128. If Zendaya slaps on a ton of white makeup, we would be having the exact same discussion about this movie. In fact we might be having an even sillier discussion about whether she is trying too hard to look white, and of course, WHAT IT ALL MEANS.

Which again, to somebody like Cleopatra, being "white" as opposed to "black" is a meaningless conversation.

dammit, "not" not "now." "not what we are talking about"

So, she’s going to impale her slaves, and Timmy, with a giant stone dildo?

[quote]Which again, to somebody like Cleopatra, being "white" as opposed to "black" is a meaningless conversation.

It is a conversation dear to Egyptians.

From the BBC:

"Zahi Hawass, a prominent Egyptologist and former antiquities minister, told the al-Masry al-Youm newspaper: "This is completely fake. Cleopatra was Greek, meaning that she was light-skinned, not black."

""Netflix is trying to provoke confusion by spreading false and deceptive facts that the origin of the Egyptian civilisation is black," he added and called on Egyptians to take a stand against the streaming giant."

"On Sunday, lawyer Mahmoud al-Semary filed a complaint with the public prosecutor demanding that he take "the necessary legal measures" and block access to Netflix's services in Egypt."

"He alleged that the series included visual material and content that violated Egypt's media laws and accused Netflix of trying to "promote the Afrocentric thinking... which includes slogans and writings aimed at distorting and erasing the Egyptian identity"."

Mouse Boy can’t carry this.

My mother has bigger balls than he does.

If Tim was playing Octavian, he would be right for that part. Roddy McDowell played him in the 1963 movie, and that character in his youth is usually depicted as an ambitious weasel. Of course he went on to become the hugely successful Augustus.

But this will seriously neverhappen with either Gadot or Zendaya. The Jada/Netflix version was a PR and ratings disaster, with many Egyptian scholars crying ‘cultural appropriation’ in depicting Cleoptra as black simply because Egypt is part of Africa. Film studios and producers are so cautious these days the whole subject is probably too hot to handle.

R119 The closest to the real story.

All the old movies were just romance movies. The politics and motivations behind Cleopatra, Caesar, and Antony were barely mentioned.

I highly recommend reading Schiff’s book. It gives insights to her actual conflicts and motives.

They could make movies out of certain stories. The Siege of Alexandria alone would make a great first season of a TV series.

I’ve always felt the last year of Cleopatra and Mark Antony’s life would make a better movie than an overall biography. There’s too much story to cram into 2-3 hours.

[quote] It is a conversation dear to Egyptians.

MODERN Egyptians. It is a unfortunately a conversation dear to pretty much every person in the 21st century. It's a stupid conversation, but one that we are obsessed with, all of us, definitely not just white Americans, everybody.

It's about historical accuracy. Cleopatra was white.

R85, She was 21, and had her brother-husband slain. Who was afraid of whom?

Caesar seduced her? Sounds like a book-sales gimmick.

R135, IIRC the Elizabeth Taylor version intertwines the empire wishes of Egypt and Rome quite well with the essential love-dynasty story.

You denigrate the importance of "romance" in comparison to...what? Military strategy and maneuvers? Wouldn't have even been an enmity between Antony and Octavian but for the former's relationships with Octavia and Cleopatra.

Anne Boleyn. Josephine. Wallis Simpson. Donna Rice. Our colletive past is replete with romances that turned the tide of history.

[quote]I thought James Purefoy and Ciaran Hines were perfect for their roles in the HBO series Rome.

They were both dead sexy in Rome.

R140 How is it a book sales gimmick? Caesar was an older man who had experience banging royalty among many other women. There was a point he was banging both a mother and a daughter! They said he banged everyone’s wife and everyone’s husband.

Cleopatra was most likely a virgin when Caesar.

And she hadn’t murdered her brother yet. Her and Caesar went to war with her brother-husband Ptolemy Theos and he drowned at sea during the battle.

When they won the war, Caesar made Cleopatra marry her second brother Ptolemy XIV because two co-rulers in Egypt was a general rule.

But when Caesar was assassinated, she immediately had her brother killed and made her toddler son co-ruler so she wouldn’t have to marry and had no threat from a co-ruler overthrowing or assassinating her, which was common amongst her dynasty.

Will Timmie or Zendie be wearing the patchouli oil? Gosh I hope the theaters have smellovision cards for us all to hold-n-sniff!

R141 The love story isn’t that interesting in 2023!

It gets in the way too.

Antony and Cleopatra weren’t Romeo and Juliet in their suicide.

Again, as mentioned - it was political.

Neither Octavian nor Cleopatra had any use for Antony once Octavian invaded Egypt. Cleopatra faked her death so he would commit suicide.

She didn’t want to be paraded through the streets of Rome in chains - which is what she and Caesar did to her sister. She was there watching it in Rome too. That’s not in the movies.

Cleopatra could be more like the movie “Elizabeth”. Sure there’s a love story but the politics carried it.

Cleopatra not only had a lot of cleaning up to do from the mess her previous pharaohs had made of Egypt, including her father, but she used the family tradition of sibling marriage and murder to break the family tradition to survive as well as break the family tradition for her children, AND had to continue being a close ally to Rome.

She didn’t want to be like her father but Antony WAS her father. Both claimed Dionysus. And that was apart of her downfall.

I’ve read like 6 or 7 books at this point on Cleopatra lol.

Zendaya is rather coarse, I don't really know what Holland sees in her.

Neither of the two actors mentioned have the charisma to play these great big historical figures. Also, nitpicking, but Cleopatra wasn't black African. She was Macedonian e.g. Greek.

He’s gonna look ridiculous in those Roman uniforms.

R143, In the sense of being quite a different take on the relationship.

However, I'm not immune to learning, r143 and r145! I don't have to agree about how romance might be perceived in 2023, but perhaps a movie that shows these leaders to be more clear-eyed than starry-eyed would be intriguing.

But not with Z , who cannot seem to mature beyond a "coltish" phase.

Macedonians weren't Greeks. In fact, when Philip and Alexander invaded the Greek city-states they were derided as barbarians, even though Alexander had been educated by Aristotle and presumably spoke perfect Greek alongside his native tongue. Macedonia was to the north of Greece, and thus its residents had even paler coloring than the Mediterranean Greeks we think of today when we hear "Greek".

Alexander and his mother (who was Thracian) were blonds or possibly redheads, and evidently quite pale-skinned. Philip was also fair-skinned but dark-haired, and Ptolemy is thought to have looked more like that. The Ptolemies in Egypt were big into incest to keep the line pure, so the chance that Cleopatra looked even as dark-skinned as a modern Egyptian is small.

'Course, she also wasn't nearly as pretty as Zendaya (or Alexander, for that matter). We have statues of her and she must have had charisma for days, because she was no raving beauty.

Maybe Villenueve should choose a more appropriate project for Tim and Zen. Perhaps " Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?" which hasn't been done for many years. He could have Kevin Hart and Cardi B play Nick and Honey.

Er, Tim isn't even old enough to play Nick. Or Honey.

Just an FYI: Alexander made political marriages outside his tribe and also had more than one wife. He married a Persian girl, and he married a Bactrian. Bactria was part of what we know today as Northern Afghanistan. He also encouraged and rewarded his generals and soldiers for doing the same. He even established legions from the offspring of these "mixed" Macedonian and Persian unions. Not all of his soldiers agreed with it. Many of the Macedonians, the core of his army, resisted it. The practice of having more than one wife was widely done and his father Phillip did it too. In fact, Phillip married Alexander's mother, who was no Macedonian and it caused a lot of problems because she was into religious practices and crazy shit.

Wow, R152. You took it seriously.

[quote] They said he banged everyone’s wife and everyone’s husband.

Close. They said he WAS every woman's husband and every man's wife. And yes he definitely had experience with royalty. The King of Bithynia may have popped his cherry when he was a Roman envoy to his kingdom.

Do I get to pick my own "house slaves"? Oh boy oh boy!

What does Tom see in Zendaya’? A beard.

Cleopatra was a man, his real name was Cleopatrick.

Somebody post an image of an ancient image of Cleopatra in which she's what nowadays we'd call unambiguously "white."

r159 it is historical fact that Cleopatra was Macedonian Greek. She was not Egyptian. She was not black. That's just how it fucking was.

Macedonian is Greek, I'm sure you have something to say about that. But you know they were Greek/Hellas. Most Americans will not know the difference anyway, and in this case it doesn't matter.

Macedonian is related to Greek but not "Greek" Greek. And many Americans know the difference.

R157 Sometimes Tom and I pretend that I'm a villain who has captured poor Petey and has him at my mercy. Good times.

I still want to know whether there's a role for Brenton Thwaites in this.

More Brenton in Gods of Egypt.

[quote] Macedonian is Greek

Says who?

This was Angie’s vanity project!

[quote] This was Angie’s vanity project!

Nah. That was her marriage to and family with Brad Pitt.

[quote]He’s like Scorsese [bold]forcing Leo down our throats.[/bold]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

R159 That’s not a real representation. Those depictions are more about symbolism.

Just like her depiction of herself at the Dendra temple with her son Caesarion. He’s depicted as an adult but he was about 2 years old when she had it made.

The oldest painting of Cleopatra is the Pompeii one. This painting and the Berlin bust were either made during her lifetime or replicas.

They were based on the status Caesar made of Cleopatra in Rome where Caesarion is depicted as Cupid and Cleopatra is Venus.

The Berlin bust actually has missing pieces - her diadem and there’s a chunk where Caesarion / Cupid was.

But Cleopatra rarely dressed like the stereotypical Egyptian. She did it for Egyptian rituals and celebrations.

Really cool video on what she would have looked like.

Someone on here mentioned her and I was shocked.

Alba Flores should play Cleopatra because she looks exactly like the statue.

Cleopatra dressed in the Greek style, she didn't do the regal Egyptian style as is almost always depicted. HBO's Rome series is the best historically accurate depiction of what Cleopatra would've looked like.

R173 Kinda. They had their moments but they also had her wearing curtain tiebacks which looked dumb.

Rome missed the opulence of Cleopatra.

She dressed in Hellenistic fashion but it was opulent.

She would have worn a shit ton of jewelry. There was the story of her dissolving the pearl earring.

And that’s the other thing they never covered in the movies and Hollywood depictions. The fishing story, the Pearl earring story, etc. She’d flip out at a party if you insulted Egyptian wine lol. I just want to see her character in the movies rather than the portrayal that have been shown.

R173 She would have never looked that messy. She literally committed suicide with her hair dresser!! They were close! She wouldn’t have looked like that.

R164 I'll have him as my houseboy #2!

Hollywood needed a pretty star who was black, but not too black. Enter Zendaya.

Brenton Thwaites is playing a Nubian nobleman. Duh.

R178 She's borderline plain, sorry.

Imagine how hard this is going to bomb. Just like all of Chalamet's other films. Nobody wants to see him in any more films. Fuck knows how he keeps getting work.

R181: Seriously how much longer can they keep pushing him? Box office numbers don't lie and he's 27 (and looks even older than that) so I think casting him in twink roles is a bit of a stretch. These Hollywood people aren't stupid and they know most people don't like him. So why continue with this torture and overexposure?

Studio need a tax write-off?

Zendaya looks like a South American beauty pageant runner-up.

I think she looks like a department store makeup counter saleslady.

Maybe Willy Wonka will turn Timmy's career around.

A prominent local business man I once knew (he's dead) always described himself as Macedonian to differentiate from the darker Greeks who were "Turkish." looking. At least to his mind.

Do we think Timmy shaves his pubes?

I’m thinking not, as he looks like a really lazy fuckboy.

Macedonians are pretty fucking white

Macedonia has a population of 2, r189?

The modern country of Macedonia ≠ the ancient country of Macedonia.

r190 it's just a representative sample.

Timmy was a pleasure to work with, sometimes 2 or 3 times a day.

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